I do see what you’re saying about Amy’s statement (“No matter what — no means no. If you say no beforehand, then the sex shouldn’t happen. If you say no while its happening, then the sex should stop.”) I think what struck me and bothered me is that it read to me like this:

Q: “Someone had sex with me after I said ‘no’. Was I raped?”
A: “Here is the definition of rape.”

I think what this woman needed to know was that the answer to her question is “YES” – and I didn’t like how Amy didn’t give that straight answer.

I think you’re good and right to bring up a point that I think Amy was trying to make – albeit poorly. The issue, I think, is this:

“Does a woman who drinks to the point of impaired judgment in a situation in which a reasonable person should know that that impaired judgment may lead to being the target of unwanted sexual contact or rape – does that women bear any responsibility for said unwanted sexual contact or rape?”

I think you and Amy and I actually agree on that answer but the confusion comes about because there is a very big distinction that no one is pointing out.

Obviously, a woman drinking does not cause rape in and of itself. We all know that in order for the rape to occur, there needs to be a rapist.

So, what’s the subtle difference here? It is this:

If you drink to the point of impairment, the result is a situation in which you have greatly increased the chances that you will be victimized through unwanted sexual touching/rape.

So, no, it doesn’t cause rape. But it may vastly increase the chances. And so the point I think Amy is making is, “Don’t *do* that! Drinking increases the chances that someone will victimize you. Don’t do that to yourself.” I think the frustration you feel is the very same that many of us feel when you see someone do something that puts them at great risk.

I think the frustration is with people who knowingly put themselves at great risk of something bad happening and then, when that bad thing happens, seem to be throwing up their hands and saying, “This is entirely not my fault!”

So what’s the difference here?

I think the difference is that the key ingredient to the bad thing happening is someone is willing to rape another person.

The final ingredient and the only necessary one for this scenario is that – someone willing to have sex with someone else despite being told no. And so I think what I and so many of those upset people are saying is, “Why are you seemingly blaming her for being raped by first pointing out to her that she increased her odds of it happening?”

So then the Question and Amy’s response looks like this:

Q: “I got drunk and impaired and told a boy that no, I did not want to have sex with him but he proceeded to have sex with my anyway. Was I raped?”

A: “You increased your odds of rape yourself. Here’s the definition of rape.”

It sure looks like she’s blaming the woman. Even though people aren’t seeing it in such naked terms, their gut understands that that was what happened.

So, in the end, I hope that all Amy is guilty of is incredibly sloppy expression. You have made a good and valid point and I think both of our responses are correct and not mutually exclusive. Thank you again for writing – and my apologies for the pedantic response!

-R.

This is what you said: “What is so massively offensive about Amy’s response is that she does not say, definitively, “YES.”

And this is what the article says:

“No matter what — no means no. If you say no beforehand, then the sex shouldn’t happen. If you say no while its happening, then the sex should stop.”

I think that is definitely yes.

My previous comment is based on my experience with girls, binge drinking, blacking out and most importantly regret. It’s easier for a girl to live with herself and deal with the shame of putting herself in a bad situation by inventing another cause—date rape. I do appreciate your great respect, passion and empathy for women and rape. I am not a monster just a little jaded.

Bravo Cookie.

What is adequate? What if she had been completely passed out drunk and unconscious and then he had sex with her because she did not give him any indication at all that she did not want to have sex with him? What’s crucial here is her consent, not her adequate relaying of the answer “no”.

-R.

Check out this great post on “Grey Rape,” BTW. Really interesting info. People who rape tend to make a habit of it. It isn’t just “boys being boys” and there is no excuse for it.